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Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Sat 06/28/08 11:11 AM
QUOTE:

I know I will get alot of heated response to this one, yet I am hoping that perhaps respectful discussions will occur nevertheless.


laugh

I'll insult your beliefs and then hope that we can have a respectful conversation, while I continue to insult your beliefs.

Why don't they have a smokin' crack emoticon?
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 07:54 PM
Hmmm...I've heard about this revival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdghiEKW9lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJAnc4y5ntA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnRVbJ3oAq4
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 02:42 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

It is not murder to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Say a man with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him first, that's not murder. If you think it is, you are confused as to what murder is.


sorry spidercmb .."kill" means something has to die ...murder is just a sub-cateogry to identify what type of killing took place..there is also self defense, man slaugther,involutary manslaughter etc. ..a kill may be within the law and some are against the law but they all pertains to "kill"


Right...so what are you confused on? The original texts clearly mean MURDER. So what is your argument? Why should we change the meaning of the original texts to mean "kill"?


sorry once again sorry spidercmb but the pact between God and Moses was a conspirsy to murder others and you can't murder without killing someone...wheather the original text meant "murder" or "kill" God asked Moses to do both ...again it's no way to spin out this


Oh yeah...that's the reason I quit discussing topics with you. You rip the scriptures out of context and insist on your own twisted defintions for every word. You aren't here to discuss, you are here to insult Christianity.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 02:39 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Most battles are premeditated. When you sign up for the military, you go in knowing you will most likely kill someone. Just because you have a uniform, and its goverment sanctioned doesn't make it any less murder.

to claim self defence, or to protect someone or something, you can't attack first. There is a huge difference between defending your house from an attacker, and going to someone elses house and attacking first saying 'they threatened me'.

What about the concentration camps? I dont think the nazi's there hated the jews. Was that ok then? I would like to think god would hold accountable for all those deaths.



The only way one country can enforce it's will onto another is through war. Without war, would there be any Jews left? Hitler's plan was to wipe out all of the Jews in the Middle East once he was done with Europe. Construction was begun on death camps in the Middle East while WWII was ongoing. War can rightly be used to protect the lives of more people than the war will kill. Wars of conquest and aggression probably do lead to violations of the various commandments.

The concentration camps are clearly covered by many of the laws given to the Israelites. Anyone who kidnaps a person in order to harm or enslave the victim must be put to death, for instance. That would cover anyone who helped hold a kidnapped person against his/her will.


So let me get this streight. Killing a single person is wrong. Killing thousands to the sound of trumpets is ok?

Your saying that wars of conquest, and aggression probably lead to violations. Have you ever been in a fight or a battle? You don't sit there and wait to be killed then defend yourself. You attack another human aggresivly, then you kill them. Then you go find another. Thats war. The fact it's claimed as nessisasry is a cop out. The bible says though shall not kill. fine, i'll give you though shall not murder. I'll even give you your definition, which you said is premeditated. Thus any time someone plans someone elses death, and carry's it out, it's called murder. So ambushing an enemy army, with the intent to kill them, and killing them would be mass murder.


You are fairly new here, so let me explain something: I don't appreciate strawman fallacies. Don't twist my words into a mockery of what I posted and pretend that is what I posted.

If a country must go to war to protect themselves or protect others from aggression, then the Bible does not call that a sin. That's the facts. You can be offended by that if you want, that's fine. But don't put words into my mouth, okay?
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 12:52 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

It is not murder to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Say a man with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him first, that's not murder. If you think it is, you are confused as to what murder is.


sorry spidercmb .."kill" means something has to die ...murder is just a sub-cateogry to identify what type of killing took place..there is also self defense, man slaugther,involutary manslaughter etc. ..a kill may be within the law and some are against the law but they all pertains to "kill"


Right...so what are you confused on? The original texts clearly mean MURDER. So what is your argument? Why should we change the meaning of the original texts to mean "kill"?
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 12:11 PM
QUOTE:

Most battles are premeditated. When you sign up for the military, you go in knowing you will most likely kill someone. Just because you have a uniform, and its goverment sanctioned doesn't make it any less murder.

to claim self defence, or to protect someone or something, you can't attack first. There is a huge difference between defending your house from an attacker, and going to someone elses house and attacking first saying 'they threatened me'.

What about the concentration camps? I dont think the nazi's there hated the jews. Was that ok then? I would like to think god would hold accountable for all those deaths.


The only way one country can enforce it's will onto another is through war. Without war, would there be any Jews left? Hitler's plan was to wipe out all of the Jews in the Middle East once he was done with Europe. Construction was begun on death camps in the Middle East while WWII was ongoing. War can rightly be used to protect the lives of more people than the war will kill. Wars of conquest and aggression probably do lead to violations of the various commandments.

The concentration camps are clearly covered by many of the laws given to the Israelites. Anyone who kidnaps a person in order to harm or enslave the victim must be put to death, for instance. That would cover anyone who helped hold a kidnapped person against his/her will.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 12:05 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

well "Eljay" I'm pretty sure the people Moses was in the process of killing was pondering that question

either way to murder someone you have to kill them and to kill them you have to murder them ..."Eljay" you should be ashame of yourself for saying that ...but it was funny

so let's face it my fellow believers ...."thou shalt not kill" is a contradiction and hypocrisy


Murder is always killing, but killing is not always murder.


..er..right spidercmb...next time you kill someone I'm pretty sure they wouldn't think you are murdering them

sorry but no matter how you try to spin it you can't do one without committing the other


It is not murder to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Say a man with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him first, that's not murder. If you think it is, you are confused as to what murder is.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 11:36 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:


Jim Jones called himself a Christian, as did Applegate. Eventually their actions did not show their claims to be valid.


Technically that would go for atleast 8 popes. I'll agree with you on this though. My grandfather was probly the only person i ever felt followed the bible. He never preached, nor tried to convert. His faith was firm beyond belief. He was accepting, and loving, and lived by the each his own. Whenever i asked why he wasn't like grandma, who tried to convert the world, he would simply say that jesus never tried to convert anyone. He was just himself, and spoke how he felt. People choose to believe him because they felt it in there hearts.


Thank you for posting that.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 10:56 AM
QUOTE:

strong's - matt jesus says do not kill - that is greek translation of the exact word - fon yoo o - 5407 - not 5406 or 5408 etc.. if it was then they would have used one or the other -it means what the word means!! And if it has more than one meaning, then it's stating it can be taken any of those way's not just as "murder"!! it say's it can mean murder, to be a murder, "kill""!!, do murder, slay!! in otherwords jesus is saying any form of life taking - not just murder or premeditated acts of life taking. if you can't see this, then the whole point of discussing this is useless and senseless.


That is completely untrue. Most words have multiple defintions, but when they are used only one is applicable.

In Exodus 20:13, the word is "ratsach". When you look at "ratsach" as it is used throughout the Bible, you see that it means "premeditated killing". Not completely murder, but certainly not killing. In Exodus 20:13, all you get is the single word "ratsach" in the imperfect tense, which means incomplete. So Exodus 20:13 means "Don't perform a premeditated killing". The closest single word in the English language is "murder". So when Jesus quoted the 6th Commandment, the word "phoneuo" would most closely be translated as "murder". The point that the commandment and Jesus were both speaking of is hate; deciding "I'm going to kill soandso". If a life is in danger, there is no commandment against using force to protect it and Jesus specifically commanded his followers to carry swords. Killing on the battlefield is also not covered by the 6th commandment as it's not inspired by personal hate against the person, it's a life or death situation.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 09:04 AM
QUOTE:

so he just keeps getting bigger the more angry he becomse? ?? i always wondered if his penis got bigger to... but any hows those are so good pants to last through all that... i'd be scared to buy expensive clothes unless i was on some type of meds if i was him.


No, that part gets smaller, which makes him more angry...it's a never ending cycle.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Fri 06/27/08 07:56 AM
QUOTE:

well "Eljay" I'm pretty sure the people Moses was in the process of killing was pondering that question

either way to murder someone you have to kill them and to kill them you have to murder them ..."Eljay" you should be ashame of yourself for saying that ...but it was funny

so let's face it my fellow believers ...."thou shalt not kill" is a contradiction and hypocrisy


Murder is always killing, but killing is not always murder.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Thu 06/26/08 06:21 AM
QUOTE:

I have a cartoon where hulk kicks everybodies butt including iron man! Only the mighty thor with his axe had a chance to knock out the hulk, but as soon as he lost grip of his axe hulk then knock him out.

So Hulk is really the representation of mighty strength beyond any superhero. Just maybe Superman might have a chance??




The one flaw in the movie is that the Hulk stayed one size. The Hulk grows bigger the more angry he becomes. You have to knock out the hulk quickly or he will be bigger and stronger than whomever he is fighting. Batman could take out the hulk, Superman wouldn't stand a chance.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Wed 06/25/08 02:38 PM
QUOTE:

If God can't lie then he's not ominpotent since there are things he can't do.


God's power is only limited by his character and paradox. God doesn't lie, because that would be against God's character. A human who chooses to murder isn't more powerful than a human who chooses to not murder. In the same way, God's omnipotence isn't reduced by God's refusal to perform actions against his character.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Wed 06/25/08 11:37 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:
I wonder if Christians have to listen to showtunes in the closet?


Oh no, are you kidding - I think they're afraid of the dark, you know all that talk of light, enlightenment, the light and way - etc.

How do you think we stayed safe so long in those closets? Why do you think they keep trying to relagate us back into the dark?
devilsmokin



I'm going to relagate my gay friend back into the closet by going to the gay bar he owns. That will show him.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Wed 06/25/08 11:32 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Davew42503,

The books of the New Testament were largely settled upon by 200 AD, 125 years before the foundation of the Catholic church. The Catholic church also persecuted many Christians who were not Catholics. But that's all past history. The people of today should not be judged for the mistakes of their philosphical fore-fathers.
yet all this discussion is based on those books that were changed by the catholic church. Even the New Testement was changed and altered to fit the "new" belief system of that time and it has not been altered since. Yet we all blindly accept it as fact. Now that access is allowed to some to review and translate the original documents where still available and the truths come forward there is still a persecution of peoples and beleifs...I know this is getting away from the original question here but, how can you base anything as fact on something that is not correct to begin with? The stories have been handed down thru the centuries and now with new and improved archelogical studies and procedures and the resurection of "dead" languages the shadows of doubt become darker...


That's not true, there are 25,000 ancient copies of the New testament, many of them predate the Catholic church and there are no significant differences.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Wed 06/25/08 11:17 AM
QUOTE:

hahahaha - boy i'm glad i'm not any of you guy's friend's, that would really be hell - hahahalaughlaughlaughlaughlaugh


You know what they say: Hell is other people.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Wed 06/25/08 11:11 AM
Davew42503,

The books of the New Testament were largely settled upon by 200 AD, 125 years before the foundation of the Catholic church. The Catholic church also persecuted many Christians who were not Catholics. But that's all past history. The people of today should not be judged for the mistakes of their philosphical fore-fathers.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Wed 06/25/08 10:49 AM
QUOTE:

as for spiders remarks he's doing just the same answering something that was not anything to do with him, but i wont comment on his take.As far as that goes your doing the same - why?


It was a joke. You can laugh or you can ignore it. If you don't laugh at my joke, it will brokenheart. cry
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Wed 06/25/08 10:37 AM
QUOTE:

sorry punzel, as i stated he's the one who got nasty first - not me - hopefully this will end it for him and you, lovebirds.flowerforyou


It doesn't matter which monkey starts throwing poo first, they all end up with poo on their hands.
Spidercmb
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Joined Fri 04/27/07
Posts: 5639
Wed 06/25/08 10:32 AM
I DVR every episode of Dr Who. I haven't watched them in order, but I know a bit about Face of Boe. The reveal of his background will go down as a great moment in TV history.

One of my favorite episodes was the Family of Blood. The ending was really cool.

I grew up on Tom Baker and I have always been a fan of Dr Who. The new series is wonderful and I think that the way they started it out made it perfect for new fans.