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Eljay
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Joined Tue 05/08/07
Posts: 772
Mon 06/23/08 01:07 PM
Belushi;

In the bible there is a verse in 1 Cor 13: 4-6 that says:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth.

So, be sure to let all of the ladies on the post know how impatient and unkind you are; self-centered and haughty. That you choose to be crass, self centered and angry. You'd prefer to be evil, and that you've got a list going of all the potential things they may get wrong. After all - the bible is wrong and useless. What would they care.
Eljay
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Sun 06/22/08 12:36 AM
"Your latest trick" - Dire Straits

That sax solo......
Eljay
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Sun 06/22/08 12:11 AM
I assume the axiom here is nothing comes from nothing - eh, CS...

wink
Eljay
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Sun 06/22/08 12:09 AM
CS;

Quite interesting to say the least, and not something to be absorbed and understood in a single reading for sure. I look forward to contemplating this essay. Thanx.

lj
Eljay
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Thu 06/19/08 12:55 PM
Funches;

Could you describe this "fun" that Christians can't have? I'm curious as to what a non-believer thinks is "fun" that is forbidden to believers. Every time I ask, I never seem to get a response.
Eljay
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Thu 06/19/08 12:30 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

well, the serial killers may go through the motions of asking for forgiveness


but i can assure you, that unless they have a truly repentant heart ...

their Names will not be written in The Lamb's Book Of Life

the Lord will say to them " Depart From me, oh worker of iniquity ~ I never knew you "


< i can't remember exactly the quote , but it is similar to that >


a serial killer once caught and sentenced to life in prison or giving the death penalty can easily place theirselves into the mind frame to be truely rependant but if not for the fact that they have been caught they may have keep on killing within that society ...so it would be the soceity that tured the serial killer rependant and not necessarily a love of God and wouldn't that serial killer still be capable of entering Heaven while those that never killed would enter Hell


Funches;

If you were to take the time to examine this scenario and your hypothesis through the scriptures, you would find that this is an unlikely outcome that "society would turn the seriel killer repentant". It is not "society" that moves the hearts of men - but God. It is more likely that a seriel killer, who's only motivation toward stopping is being caught, has already been given over to the depravity they have craved. That isn't to say that it is not possible that what you are suggesting could hapen. But it would be more the exception than the rule.
Eljay
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Wed 06/18/08 08:13 PM
I just had an epiphany of a third reason.

3) Ufo's brought us here.
Eljay
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Tue 06/17/08 10:26 PM
QUOTE:

I'm 56 miles north of there.Woo-Hoo!heartMassheartsmile


Unbelivable, eH!
Eljay
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Tue 06/17/08 09:19 PM
That's 17!!!
Eljay
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Tue 06/17/08 08:37 PM
They're going to win it! Unbelievable.

A Masaacre!

Hoist # 17
Eljay
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Tue 06/17/08 08:35 PM
QUOTE:

Celtics! Celtics! Celtics! Yeah Baby!


drinkerdrinkerdrinker
Eljay
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Tue 06/17/08 01:55 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

"Popycock ".....That he is.Lol.Actually the non practicing muslims have grown more in number since the days of our beloved Muhammed.For example :1# monarchy is strictly prohibited in islam.2# A true muslim can never enjoy a good nights sleep while his neighbour is starving.BTW. Do you know that muslims also have a ritual like the baptizing of a new born?


They have lots of ceremonies that are akin to christian ones.

Which is why it makes me wonder with such similarities why doesnt christianity recognise islam as a brother religion in the same way it recognises catholicism?


Because Islam is a "works oriented" salvation based system. Christianity is not.
Eljay
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Tue 06/17/08 12:59 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Hmmm... So, I see Christianity has been reduced to a religion that stones it's unruly children. Therefore, it can't be valid, and should be abandoned.

I wish I could say I admire this logical and critical thinking.

Really, you think you've got a grasp of Christianity?

laughlaughlaughlaughlaugh


well "Eljay" it's apparent that you don't have a grasp of Christianity either as you try to be deceptive by presenting your illusions of denial...

your first illusion of denial was when you tried to give the illusion that the purpose of Hell was not to torture non-believers and then your second illusion of denial was when you try to create the illusion that God is not the CEO in charge of who get's tortured

all you need is one more illusion of denial and you'll be tied with St. Peter


Funches;

The purpose of hell is for what? To torture non-believers you say. What does the bible say the purpose of hell is for? (Since the concept of hell is a biblical one)

Also, when you say "God" - who are you refering to? The CEO in charge of "who gets tortured" as you put it - is Jesus. If you are going to discuss biblical topics leaving the impresion that you understand them - at least get the facts right.
Eljay
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Tue 06/17/08 12:53 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Hmmm... So, I see Christianity has been reduced to a religion that stones it's unruly children. Therefore, it can't be valid, and should be abandoned.

I wish I could say I admire this logical and critical thinking.

Really, you think you've got a grasp of Christianity?

laughlaughlaughlaughlaugh


Reduced?

You're funny Eljay.

Over the past year I have given literally hundreds of reasons why Christianity can't possibly be true and now you're trying to pretend that my rejection of Christianity is based on a single absurdity.

Do you really want me to list the myriad reasons why it can't possibly be true?

I think I will write up a summary post. Then every time someone tries to make it appear that I've reduced Christianity to just one stupidity I'll post an extremely long list of reasons why it can't be true. The fact that God commanded us to stone children certainly being one of them.

I should have thought of this a long time ago. I'll go make that post up right now, and I'll be back to post it, and then I'll start posting it over and over and over again just for fun. wink

Thanks for the idea.



Had you been the only one to post that Abra - I wouldn't have said what I did. But you did not originate that thought, you only parrot-ed it. I give you more credit than merely rejecting Christianity for this absurd notion. I'm actually suprised you threw your hat in the ring on this one.
Eljay
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Mon 06/16/08 10:29 PM
QUOTE:

Of course the third option (answered by religion) is that a separate creator, the "All Mighty God" created everything.

But if this is the case, then where did this creator come from?
Therefore this solution also creates more questions than answers and just goes in a circle.


However - the question of "where did the creator come from" is an illogical one, because creation denotes time, and time is a creation. The creator of time has always existed.
Eljay
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Mon 06/16/08 01:27 AM
Redy;

This questoin of saints can be one of confusion - for the recognition of "sainthood" is different in Catholicism than it is in the Protestant sects, or the evangelicals.

In Catholicism (Where the "s" of Saint is capitolized) the title of Saint is awarded to only a select few. The apostles are refered to as Saints - of course there was Saint Patrick, Joan of Arc, etc. Somewhere I'm sure there's a list.

Otherwise, amoungst Protestants and evanglicals, any believer is a saint. It essentially means "one who is called".
Eljay
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Sun 06/15/08 05:10 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:
Eljay wrote:

This thread has nothing to do with people who don't believe the bible. Read Funches post again. For that matter - read mine again, I qualified my response so I wouldn't have to deal with your strawman arguments.


That's silly.

The whole idea behind Christianity is that the Bible is the correct description of God. It doesn't even make and sense to talk about things such as heaven or hell outside of the biblical context.

QUOTE:
Eljay wrote:

God is in Heaven. For those who do not wish to enter there - God does not admit them. Period. He doesn't "send them anywhere". You have made this assumption. Had you read the book, you'd know otherwise.


Again, you say, "Had you read the book!".

It's all about what the bible says. You believe in a book. Not in a God. You claim that the book is the word of God. You worship a book!

And they you try to claim that it's not about the Bible. You want to have your cake and eat it too.

QUOTE:
Spider wrote:

Musha rain dum-a-doo dum-a-da


Well that makes a lot more sense that what you posted before you edited your post. laugh

You and Eljay are both trying to pull the same stunt.

I tell you guys what the bible says, and then you guys try to say, "But God isn't like that!"

But the Bible is what you people claim to believe in.

You can't say that God doesn't threaten people who don't believe in him because the Bible most certainly does this. Whatever the Bible says is what the biblical God says, because the whole idea behind it. It's supposed to be the word of God.

You can't say, "But God isn't like that!". If say that all you are saying is that you don't believe that the Bible correctly portrays what God is like (i.e. you renounce the very idea that the Bible is the word of God).

Oxymoron. As always!

For Christians the Bible has to be the word of God. Therefore whatever the Bible says that God is like then that's what God must be like. The Bible clearly threatens non-believers that bad things will happen to them.

The Christian God clearly threatens non-believers with violence, and clearly uses tactics of intimidation and fear to try to get people to love him. This must be the case because Christians are claiming that the Bible is the WORD of God.

Therefore the Christian God threatens to reject people, and intimidates with fear tactics because this is what the Bible does, and Christians claim that the Bible is the words of God.

There's no way out. Christians have no choice but to confess that their God (the Bible) uses methods of intimidation, fear, and threatens to reject people if they don't believe him. Because the Bible tells us so!

You guys are hopeless. You'll defend that the book is the word of God until you're blue in the face, whilst simultaneously trying to claim that God isn't like what the Bible says. laugh

It's utterly ridiculous. The biblical doctrine trips over its own proclamations and falls flat on its face in the mud. And you guys stand there trying to defend it.

For what reason? You've either fallen for the intimidation and you are afraid to renounce it. Or you're lusting for the gift of eternal life it offers and you don't want to miss out on the chance in case it might somehow be miraculously true.

Good luck. flowerforyou



Abra;

Get out your logic book and look up "shifting middle".

You may equate God to the bible, I do not. I do not "worship" the bible - it is a book of words. It has limits. It does not contain all that there is to know about God. It's merely a "road map". A tool for guidance. It's not a recipe book.


AJ,

do you really believe that if you had never read the bible you would think and believe as you now do? and once you did reach the point your at - if it is just a road map then why continue reading it? do you look at road maps of the usa or world every day? if you know where your going - what good does it do you or other's who say it's not really necessary or even some saying they would be just as christian about it? I've heard from MS, and feral and others cherub included that the book is not what saves them but jesus or belief in him - yet would anyone know of jesus and or how to accept him without the word's? the question has to be answered once and for all- is the"BOOK" necessary to become or "be" a christian? is the book necessary for being a christian at all? yes - or - no? can you become a christian and follow jesus as he intended or as the writers intended and live accordingly without the words in your book or without you or others repeating the words in your book or any other books spouting the same things? can i or anyone be saved by one saying no more than ""if you believe on his name ye shall be saved"" without knowing what it is that i'm to believe? and if your answer is "yes" - why then would god have bothered to have it written to begin with? saying its a road map is not acceptable as an answer - if the book is absolutely not important, has no real value to becoming christian whatsoever, as to accepting god,son,and spirit, then get rid of it, stop the contraversy and confusion of the useless book.


Tribo;

Actually - I had not read the bible before I believed as I did. But admittedly, having heard about Jesus and who he was as a youngster (grew up Catholic), I would assume that somewhere along the way the bible was read by someone. But my faith in God came not through reading the bible, but through the events of my life. They were the great teachers in my life.
To put it simplistically - when I "broke a commandmant", which I spent most of my adolescence doing - there were consequences.
Some minor, some life altering. Then - having completely abandoning Christianity, I searched for enlightenent through everything from the occult, to buddism, to New Age, a Cult or 3, and eventually came back around to Christianity. Having done that, I then read the bible. I continue to read the bible for the same reason that I continue to read the "Backstage Manuel". I learn every time I read it. One I read because I need it in my job, the other because it helps me in life.

As to the question "can I be saved without the bible" - I would say "Yes - why not?" It isn't the bible that saves you - or being a Christian that saves you. It is only Jesus who saves.
And why is that? Because we mess up. We do what we do, and once done, we own it. There's no magic erasure to undo it, and there's no "redo's". For me - it is not difficult to see that there is just too much within the bible that rings true to me, and makes sense. I'm not going to say I haven't grappled with some of it over the past 50 years, give or take a few. But I've yet to read proverbs and find a whole lot of it "just plain wrong". On the contrary - I CAN'T find an issue in proverbs. I don't see a need to rewrite the 10 commandments. I've broken enough of them and suffered the consequences thereof to know that it's futile to think otherwise.

I think - in the long run - the question of necessity for a believer in Jesus is moot. There is a desire to read it. It, as I'm sure you are well aware, is not a book that can be totally absorbed, or understood - in a single reading. But the essence of it is understood when one does. For some, reading it once is enough. For others - there's never enough times for it to be read. So, is it "necessary"? Tough to say.


we have a lot in common AJ. i to was raised catholic til the 8th grade. so i know where your coming from. I understand that from the first grade you are "taught" about god and what "roman carholocism" teaches about the bible through the use of the catechism book in school. and also religious classes every day. you say you found out about jesus? of course you did - but not on your own - no one i've wever talked to has "found out about jesus" - on their own. It "requires" someone telling you about him for you to know of him. From the time i left catholocism my life sonds much like yours - i never read the bible either as a catholic, there are few catholics i knew or know that do on a daily weekly or even yearly basis, most have one, but its just an ornament to take with you, especially true of the older ones who like me did not speak the language of latin, so it was no more than pompous ceremony.i studied all religions over a long time also and found "no" religion worth my time, effort, support, or belief in. When i finally returned to "christianity" i was 26, and it was through a friend of mine - a jewish carpenter by trade - no it was not jesus hahaha. his name was willy bogen, a jewish kid who had come upon a book called late great planet earth - that was my entrance into it because i saw what i believed an incredible change in willy that shocked me - so i looked into it - i started out looking into the prophetic ends of things and went on from there but it was a few years before i actually picked up the bible as a whole book to read and upon doing so i saw way to much contradiction in ti and that was when my questioning began of it's "infallability". I'm skeptical by nature and a doubting thomas by nature as a result.but besides that i believe in core logic and using the power of reason and common sense that i have, and sense told me that this was the work of men not an all knowing all powerful god or if it was - he was acting to much like a man and not enough like the god he wants to portray himself to be - , you may not think you need the book AJ, but you do, you may think that you found out of jesus on your own without the book, but you did not, you as i have been duped by the going's on of organized religion - and i say all religion not just christianity. i hope you find your way through it, but if not good luck. by the way willy and the rest of us are no longer christians, or believers.


Tribo;

Actually - it's LJ.

Yes, we did travel a similar path - up until the "contradictions" phase. I too wondered about that, but I did not rely on my own sense of logic to justify it, or dismiss it. I continued my research on it, and discovered the term "exegesis". I realized that conclusions needed to come from total examination of scripture, rather than matching one up against the other. (Case in point - the two different genieologies in Matthew and Luke) Suddenly, apparent contradictions just weren't so, but were merely two different ways of saying the same thing. But the most important thing I discovered was that I did not blindly accept others perceptions.

I don't disagree with you on what organized religion has become.
Too many self centered, egotistical pseudo-Christians leading others astray from the pulpet. But that's the way it is with "man". Be it religion, politics, education... I do disagree with you on the "needing the book". Unless your reference is that one needs the book to understand Christianity.
It would be difficult not to have anything but a subjective understanding of the God who claims to be the creator, and the plans for his creation without it. Else you have "organized religion".
Eljay
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Posts: 772
Sun 06/15/08 03:16 PM
Hmmm... So, I see Christianity has been reduced to a religion that stones it's unruly children. Therefore, it can't be valid, and should be abandoned.

I wish I could say I admire this logical and critical thinking.

Really, you think you've got a grasp of Christianity?

laughlaughlaughlaughlaugh
Eljay
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Posts: 772
Sun 06/15/08 12:25 PM
QUOTE:

quit whining, my friend.laugh

just thoroughly and completely botch everything almost beyond repair and some good woman will come to your hapless aid.laugh

You know what to do.tongue


peace.flowerforyouheartbigsmile


Hold on there Wouldee.

Don't be giving away trade secrets! wink
Edited by Eljay on Sun 06/15/08 12:26 PM
Eljay
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Sun 06/15/08 12:18 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

How'd you do that eljay?laughlaugh


???


The posts disappeared!laugh


Oh, right. Deleted by the Mods.